FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post your general fly fishing messages here, ask questions, talk fly fishing
User avatar
fraser hocks
Posts: 669
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 3:25 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by fraser hocks » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:49 am

My understanding is that they are allowed to work here under the same system that a tour guide is, in that they are payed in there homeland and come here escorting the tourists around, so aren't payed in this country. Fairly common in the general tourism world.

I have to say though that i do find it baffling that people would want to come to our country and prefer to be guided by a person from their own country rather than a local and learn a bit about the amazing country they are in? Maybe this says a bit about the mindset of the people that sign up for these "fishing tours"?? :?

Chris Dore is a bloody brilliant local guide and he put an article together recently about how to be a good guide and one of the important bits as he put it was to be knowledgeable about all the details of the area we live in and some of the history as clients will often want to get to learn a bit about the area they are fishing, not just catch fish. Wise words indeed! ;)


Bucking trends in fly fishing since 1970!

Dave
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 10:31 am
Location: Invercargill

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by Dave » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:24 am

Paul
Once again you have misunderstood what I am saying. I was not suggesting that they control who is there but restrict the number of people fishing the spring creek to something sensible.
Dave



Salmo Brown Trout
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 1:05 pm
Location: Christchurch

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by Salmo Brown Trout » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:20 pm

Dave
Once again you fail to look at the whole problem, not the little ones. (Very narrow minded)
You seem to have an ongoing problem of an inadequate understanding of the English language and it's grammar, when trying to explain yourself.

Fraser
If you look on the Website of the Australian Guides who come over here or go to their shops, they advertise about the big fish in New Zealand. These Australian guides, have come fishing in New Zealand and have learned which waters to fish, from the Local New Zealand guides. The likes of Goulburn Valley Fly Fishing centre, Aussie Angler, Gavin Hurley and so fort, are all organising group guided fishing trips over to New Zealand. They are taking money away from the New Zealand economy and Inland Revenue.

As for local Guides, there should be a Guide license payable to Fish and Game at a marked up price. Any international guides should have to pay an substantial increased guiding license, otherwise be fined by Fish and Game at an amount that would stop them re-offending.

The only clash I've had with any guide in New Zealand was a local guide who dropped in on me. After parking his car 200 metres from me and watching me rig, then walk 800 metres down from the bridge and start fishing. He then drove to the bridge, walked down two hundred metres and started fishing with his client. When I then moved upstream and dropped in on him, he had the audacity to ask me what I was doing. I unleased a verbal tirade upon him, using many 4 letter words, about his conduct as a local guide and that he wasn't setting a good example towards his client or other New Zealand guides.
Two days late, when I bumped into him at the pub, he tried to explain his actions from the previous day. I just gave him another shot from both barrels.

Last season there was a group of 14 Norwegian's driving around in two mini buses with two Norwegian guides. they were doing an course on Recreational Fishing and Guiding in Norway, and were here for two weeks as part of their course. I came across them twice. They had no etiquette, as they would turn up to a place, all unload and walk off fishing without talking to other fisherman already rigging up. The rivers, when I came across them, were back country rivers, in Canterbury and West Coast, that could no cope with that number of anglers in one day.

Last May, while fishing a small inlet on Lake Okataina, we had 2 different boats motor right up through the current formed from the small inlet, without any show of etiquette towards the 3 fisherman already there. (This spot can only hold 2 fisherman) they spooked rising fish and were within casting range. These two were let known that they were not welcome and given a polite 4 letter word send off. One actually anchored with in casting range of the mouth of the stream. A third boat came in later. They were the only one's to show any etiquette, by beaching their craft 50 metres away from the inlet and approaching us on foot to talk about anchoring their boat further from the mouth to fish. We told them, yes it was okay and we didn't have an issue. One member of the group started fishing from the shore, 20 metres from the inlet, and we invited him over to fish amongst us. Only because they had shown some etiquette towards other fisherman. The 3 boat loads of anglers were all local New Zealanders. One of them wasn't happy about me with my Australian accent giving him advice on fishing etiquette.

From all this, I have learnt that bad fishing etiquette isn't discriminated by which country you are from.


A bad day's fishing beats a good day working.

upstream
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 2:45 pm

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by upstream » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:43 pm

A guides license has been on the table for a while. F&G issued a discussion paper about a proposed guides licence in April 2011 and I made a submission on behalf of our fishing club in support of it. But that is the last we heard of it. Maybe a F&G councillor on this forum can explain why this hasn't progressed any further?



User avatar
Steve
Site Admin
Posts: 349
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:42 pm
Location: Methven NZ
Contact:

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by Steve » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:25 pm

upstream wrote:A guides license has been on the table for a while. F&G issued a discussion paper about a proposed guides licence in April 2011 and I made a submission on behalf of our fishing club in support of it. But that is the last we heard of it. Maybe a F&G councillor on this forum can explain why this hasn't progressed any further?
I don't have any recent info on where it's at, but both the guides association and F&G National Council have been working to bring this about, I do know the guides have been trying for a very long time to have the Guides Licence become a reality, and at the October national F&G meeting last year it seems that both parties were on the same page, and it's in the hands of head office to work on and take to the minister. I'll see if I can find out any more



Johnno
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by Johnno » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:17 am

Just a couple of thoughts:

How will a guides licence or registration prevent foreign guides working here or bringing anglers over here like they apparently are doing? I hardly think any of them are members of the NZPFGA but they doesn't stop them. Chris Dore - what is the NZPFGA view or position on this. Any idea?

How is F and G going to police it all?



upstream
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 2:45 pm

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by upstream » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:58 am

Johnno wrote:How will a guides licence or registration prevent foreign guides working here or bringing anglers over here like they apparently are doing? I hardly think any of them are members of the NZPFGA but they doesn't stop them. Chris Dore - what is the NZPFGA view or position on this. Any idea?

How is F and G going to police it all?
In 2011 Fish and Game's preferred option was a less-intrusive guide license option. It would be just another licence category available on an annual basis. Fish and Game wouldn't vet the applicants too strictly, but would set some requirements of them. But it would leave it up to the guiding industry to set professional standards. The license would cost 3 times that of a standard season license. They didn't mention foreign guides back then. But I imagine that (given that there is now an overseas visitors license) they would be able to restrict the guides license to NZ residents.

Basically Fish and Game didn't want to get into vetting guides or limiting their numbers because it would just be too hard and take up too much time. I still have a copy of the discussion paper. If anyone wants one PM me and I'll email it to you.



Tamati
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by Tamati » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:03 am

It seems to me the elephant in the room is not foreign fishing guides, it is guiding per se.
Excessive pressure degrades certain fishing environments and whether it is overseas guides guiding overseas clients, overseas clients guided by New Zealand guides or New Zealand guides guiding New Zealanders makes not the slightest difference.
Historically New Zealand has in my view an admirable record in the acclimatisation of fresh water game fish and resisting its commercialisation. Some of that persists with the sale or barter of trout being illegal, but insofar as in the field commercial guiding is concerned that has been a, in my view contrary, trend for many decades.
I have no difficulty with instruction classes or demonstrations in casting, fly tying, fishing techniques, reading water or whatever, in non competed space, and payment for this, but I have always struggled to reconcile in the field guiding with that history of non commercialisation.
Does no one else see the irony when those who choose to earn their livelihood through the economic exploitation/development (take your pick) of New Zealand’s natural assets are the first to complain when overseas interests seek to do likewise.
Unfortunately once you monetise such assets all sorts of unforeseen and unfavourable consequences may ensue.
Not sure whether the TPPA affects treatment of any such overseas interests, but never fear, I’m sure they can readily become New Zealand interests. As I recall that old rascal Winston Peters saying with a chuckle when discussing swamp kauri exports on radio NZ last year “there’s always a kaumatua for sale.”

One solution would be to ban all guiding on certain sections of certain rivers. They do that on part of the Thompson river in BC Canada.
But such a move in NZ would be to acknowledge the detriment that can accompany guiding and would never happen because of vested interests.



Jaapie
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by Jaapie » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:44 pm

I've been biting my tongue and resisting the urge to type something, but this last post is excellent and warrants a comment.

Does no one else see the irony when those who choose to earn their livelihood through the economic exploitation/development (take your pick) of New Zealand’s natural assets are the first to complain when overseas interests seek to do likewise.



User avatar
Steve
Site Admin
Posts: 349
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:42 pm
Location: Methven NZ
Contact:

Re: FOREIGN FISHING GUIDES ......

Post by Steve » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:17 pm

Gee some big statements there re guides and the use of the resource... I wonder have those making those comments considered just what a guide is actually doing when out on the water?

They are providing a service for an angler licenced to fish by F&G, that licence holder has as much right as anyone else to fish a piece of water, that they choose for what ever reason to hire a more knowledgeable angler to help them out and make their day better is their choice, likewise the regulations allow for this to occur. If the guide is exploiting the resource, then by implication are those hiring the guides doing so also? I'm guessing there are up to 200k of guided angler days a season (ball park figure) - those anglers clearly have a different view of the value of a guide

Further the guiding industry has evolved around the rules and regulations in place, it's not the guiding industry that sets those rules.

While there are problems, I believe the guiding industry adds a lot of value to our fisheries on a whole, without the tourist $$ and usage F&G income would be smaller as would their voice, by far the greater treat is the decline in our river environments which means more angles having to fit into less water and it would be a much better to expend energies focusing on those issues



Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests